Mitch Barnett greets a visitor with a thumbs-up sign, finds an empty meeting room at 5 by 5 Software Ventures and promptly points to a fancy executive chair.

“You can sit in that chair,” says the president and part owner of the upstart Calgary firm. “I’ll take this one. This is cool.”

Reminded that he’s the star of the interview, the unpretentious Barnett protests. “Naw, I’m just a guy from Saskatchewan trying to make a buck,” he shrugs. Barnett, who doesn’t like to take himself too seriously, takes the second-best chair, grinning. He seems comfortable. In fact, you get the idea he’d be comfortable seated on a bale of hay.

Cool.

1. What was your boyhood dream?

Larry MacDougal, Business Edge
5 By 5 Software Ventures president Mitch Barnett saw enterprise integration as a fast-growing market opportunity.

“I wanted to build stuff. I had no idea it would take the shape or form of software, but I was one of those kids who played with all the Tonka toys and graders and all that stuff.”

2. How did you initially hook up with computers?

“Actually, I had a previous life in the recording industry. I grew up with an electronics background (his father’s business) and I did a lot of sound recording with a couple of bands – the Northern Pikes and The Pursuit Of Happiness. So it was in a recording studio where I ran into the Macintosh computer. It was like 1985 and they were programming the computer to do drum tracks and stuff like that. I thought: ‘Wow, this is pretty cool.’ And I started investigating it.”

3. What appealed to you about the computer at that time?

“It wasn’t bound by the laws of physics. You could build anything on it. It was just like art where you can paint any picture you want. There’s not any right way or wrong way in the software biz. There are a million ways to skin the cat type-of-thing. In software development, you weren’t limited to physical constructs such as brick or lumber and there’s some creativity there.”

4. Why did you move around a lot early in your career, working for a number of major companies in software?

“I wanted to get exposure to the industry. I worked at Eastman Kodak in Rochester, New York. That was a really fascinating place because they produce everything themselves from raw materials. You get to see what process improvement really means because they’ve been doing it since the early 1900s. At Motorola in Chicago, I worked on a global satellite project.”

5. What motivated you to start 5 by 5 Software?

“Barry (Varga) and I were trying to solve a problem for a company (as consultants) and we happened to be at a Microsoft conference in Dallas in June of 1999. We saw this product called BizTalk that was just announced at that time. At that time, we were doing integration work by hand and it would take us months to do a job. But they developed a tool set that allowed you to do the same thing in weeks, if not days. We saw that as a productivity tool for us to solve some of our clients’ problems. Then, we happened to notice that the enterprise integration marketplace was the most logical next step in the evolution of the computer industry. Companies had all these applications and data stores all over the place but they didn’t talk to each other. But we saw we could automate that in a short period of time. In choosing (Microsoft) technology, it came down to a pragmatic business choice in which customers wanted something delivered now. And it turned out to be Microsoft. Who knew?”

6. Have you met Microsoft founder Bill Gates?

“No, I haven’t met him personally. Geez, I dunno if I’d want to meet him. It really isn’t on my radar scope. I think it would be interesting, but I don’t really have that desire or wish. I think he’s an incredibly shrewd and opportunistic businessman. I think he’s brilliant. He’s able to recognize an opportunity and then capitalize on it right away where other companies tend to take their time more and fumble around a bit. He sees it and acts on it right away. I think that’s a real differentiator in the marketplace. He knows what he wants and he goes after it full blast.”

7. Who has been your business mentor?

“Well, you know, this is the funny thing. I’ve never really had a mentor. I’ve always learned a lot on my own. I’m self-taught. I can’t tell you how many textbooks I’ve read, but it’s pathetic. I’m one of those information addict types. The U of C’s software engineering program also had a great influence.”

8. How difficult was it in getting this company off the ground?

“We just sort of pooled our resources, started out really small and sort of incrementally grew based on our professional services revenue. It was not financed. The (tech meltdown) has impacted us a bit, but not as much as other companies because we’re very focused on underlying technologies or infrastructure or what we refer to as plumbing. In other words, applications still need to communicate with each other, but they don’t need a new application built. That problem hasn’t gone away in the tech market. Other things have gone away – telco and various other things.”

9. What were you thinking when all the publicly traded dot-coms were going to the moon at the time you started 5 by 5 Software?

“No, we never thought of taking our company public and we probably won’t. Software’s not a quarterly business. And in public companies it’s the quarters that rule. We’re not selling widgets or anything like that. We’re selling intellectual property and services and that doesn’t occur in a quarterly fashion. I’ve been at a couple of public companies that have tried the quarterly thing and it just doesn’t work. I personally don’t own any tech stocks. I do own tech stocks in a company that I’ve just written off, even though at one point they were probably worth a million bucks on paper. It’s funny that as someone who is running a technology, I’m not advocating you buy tech stocks because, in my mind, it’s too high risk.”

10. What’s the key to marketing your business?

“I think it’s just exposure. The business community doesn’t know what’s available to them in the way of software automation. So from our perspective we’re trying to expose that more and more and help them understand that the things that need to be done can be done and done in a relatively short period of time without costing a lot of money. Most people are of the mindset that it’s millions of dollars (in expenses), but it isn’t. You can achieve things in a very quick time frame for relatively low costs and a high return on investment. Our annual revenue is about $1 million and we continue to grow, but we’re being very cautious about that. It’s one thing to bulk up for a bunch of projects, but it’s another thing to sustain it. So we’re looking very closely at our business model to be sure we have a sustainable business.”

11. What’s your goal for the business?

“We enjoy what we do. I’m not really so interested in growing into a large business and then selling it off. We like to work in this environment and, as you can see, we’ve got a pretty different environment than most shops.

“People like being here and they enjoy what they do. So why would you want to give up that type of thing? We see that (enterprise application integration) work going on for at least 10 more years. We’re established as experts in the industry locally and Microsoft uses us as one of the top 10 BizTalk integrators in North America. So we’ve got a good street rep and a good reputation with Microsoft, so we don’t want to start branching out to other things. We have to stay focused as a software development company.”

12. How important is it to create an easy-going atmosphere in your workplace?

“Oh, yeah, that’s important. We’re pretty laid back. We figure that in the (information technology) world there’s enough stress for everyone. So we try to keep it pretty calm here. We’re always throwin’ jokes around. We look after our crew. They get paid well. They’ve got the best gear, the best software, the best infrastructure that we can afford, the appropriate environment with comfortable chairs and good desks, and we take them out. We make a point of emphasizing that this is about the crew. We’re in the intellectual property business. It’s not just a plug-and-play where you can grab people off the street. It really is almost like joining a band. There’s a role to play. It’s like being on the best (National Football League) team. Everyone’s got a role to play and you try to be best at your position.”

13. Did they earn a Christmas bonus this year?

“Yeah, they did. There’s a little Christmas bonus. One of the reasons we started the company is that we’ve been at so many other companies where you get to a certain point where, for whatever reason, you can’t progress any further. Well, in our minds, we want to build something, put it into production and see that people will use it and enjoy the benefits from us. That’s what gives us the thrill. If you’re in an organization that can’t do that, well, the thrill is gone, so to speak. We try to create a creativity outlet for the crew and that’s ultimately what people like to see.”

14. Who has had the greatest influence on your career?

“I know it sounds a bit corny, but it is my business partner of two years, Barry Varga (chief technology officer). He is the guy that signed up with me from the beginning. He stuck his neck out with a young family of two daughters at the time that we shook hands and went for it. Barry’s level of commitment, integrity and work ethic still amazes me after two years. The big bonus is Barry’s surgical skills as a software craftsman. I have a lot of respect for Barry. My dad also was a great influence because he was in the electronics business.”

15. What do you need to learn to become a better business leader?

“Politics. I just don’t get it. It’s like people pay you money to do a job, you do the job, you get paid the money and that’s it. But, unfortunately, there’s all sorts of other things and I don’t understand that myself.”

16. What’s the best advice you’d offer a young person entering the business world?

“First of all, I would say go for it. You’re only limited by what’s in your head.

“Being sort of conservative Canadians, the idea of being on a hook for a bunch of money can be initially stressful, but at the same time I don’t have any regrets at all. I think if any young guys out there have a fear about that, I’d say to put your fear aside. If you’ve got a vision or idea, try it on for size. The only other piece of advice is that you’ll have to get lawyers, like intellectual property lawyers, and accountants and all that stuff, but try and work that out front if you can. As you go through the process and have to reinvent things, it can cost you a lot of money.”

17. Is this business almost an obsession to you or are you able to separate business and personal life?

“Barry and I are closet perfectionists so, y’know, we get focused and drive, drive, drive. But eventually the wives come along and slap you around a bit and say: ‘Hey, you’ve got a life here, too.’ Then, we take a break and it’s good for a while and then . . . (chuckling)”

18. What’s your greatest escape from work?

“I had to get away in September so I took a motorcycle (Yamaha Roadstar) trip by myself and just got on the bike and cranked the miles out and had enough time to play all the videotapes in my head and think about things. In the day-to-day operations, you sometimes start to lose focus and you start to think: ‘Why am I doing this in the first place . . . how about just a regular nine-to-five job?’ The way I look at it, s--- happens. You can worry yourself to death, but it’s of no value. You just get to be a crab around people. My philosophy is, every day that you get out of bed is a good day.”

19. Where’d you end up on your bike?

“I ended up in San Rafael, Calif. It was absolutely gorgeous. It was just breathtaking. I have a couple of memories of sand dunes on the top of the Sierra Mountains and the smell of sage going through a valley by San Francisco. I remember lifting the lid on the helmet and going: ‘Holy cow!’ It was nose-piercing, amazing! It was great because you get to think a lot when you’re inside your helmet, so to speak, and I came back re-energized.”

20. Your father switched careers late in life, becoming a financial planner after a career in electronics. What’s your next career?

“(Laughter) I’m hoping my next career is riding my motorbike across America, reliving the ’60s type of thing, being one with the scenery.”

IN PROFILE: Mitch Barnett
* Born/raised/age: Deep River, Ont.; Saskatoon, Sask.; 43.
* Title: President/founder, 5 by 5 Software Ventures.
* Education: University of Calgary, software engineering management certificate (U of C's first such program); Saskatchewan Technical Institute (Moose Jaw), electronics engineering certificate.
* Family: Wife Lesley.
* Career: Prior to launching 5 by 5 in early 2000, Barnett worked at Fortune 500 and Fortune 1000 companies such as Motorola and Eastman Kodak, providing expertise in enterprise software architecture design, construction and deployment of automated business
solutions. Barnett has more than 20 years of experience in diverse commercial product development.
* Passion: Cruisin' California on his Yamaha Roadstar, machining, welding.

THE COMPANY: 5 by 5 Software Ventures
* Brass: Mitch Barnett, president; Barry Varga, chief technology officer; Neil Kenyon, vice-president, sales and marketing; Leon Perrier, manager, staffing and operations; Lesley Barnett, administration.
* Profile: 5 by 5 is a professional services firm that specializes in enterprise application integration (EAI) and business process management, providing companies with creative business solutions that allow them to compete more effectively. The company helps organizations automate business processes, eliminate redundancy and allow employees to improve
communications across multiple applications.
* Clients: Include Microsoft, Enmax, Energy Utilities Board (government of Alberta), BearingPoint.
* Latest: 5 by 5 recently was recognized as a Microsoft Gold Certified Partner for excellence in providing services and solutions.
* Web site: www.5by5software.com
* Address: 355-138 4th Ave. SE, Calgary, T2G 4Z6.
* Phone/Fax: 403-290-1406, 403-206-7197.